What's wrong with U.S. bra stores?

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Sometimes, people will ask why I (and other bloggers) "hate on Victoria's Secret and/or [insert name of any well-known U.S. bra store here]." So what if those stores don't sell your size, people say. "You're just bitter because you can't buy anything from them. Just get over it!"

Honestly, I have no real problem with the fact of particular stores in the U.S. selling an incredibly limited range of bras. I know that bra departments and stores can't be expected to stock every size under the sun.

What I do have a problem with is these stores claiming that their size range will fit "every woman". That they'll push bras on to women to make a sale, even if the bras are a blatantly incorrect fit. That they use their position of supposed "expertise" to misinform women. That sometimes fitters insult women who are outside the small size range carried. That, in the U.S., there is an overwhelming amount of misinformation about bras, bra sizing, and how bras are supposed to fit - and it's spread largely by the bra stores (and the media) here - the very ones who are supposed to know better.

[I'm going to add here that I'm in no way trying to put down the stores I mention in general, but just bring attention to their incorrect fitting methods they use to keep customers within a very small range of sizes. Also, there are great boutiques out there with dedicated owners committed to meeting the needs of their customers in terms of fitting and sizes stocked. In this post, however, I'm just speaking in broad terms of what I and others have generally experienced, mostly in the larger, well-known stores - the stores that, unfortunately, tend to carry the most influence.]

Limited Sizing

Stores like the ever-present Victoria's Secret, for example, sell a grand total of 33 bra sizes (yes, I counted) - but only about 15-18 of those sizes are actually really found in the physical stores. Victoria's Secret often claims (overtly or by implication) that they have bras for "all" or "almost all" women.

Do they think that there are only 15-18, or 33, different body types that women have?

Other stores I've seen have an even more limited amount of sizes - in the 8-12 range. Again, I don't really have a problem with stores carrying a very small range of bra sizes. What I do have a problem with is their implication that all or most women should fit into this incredibly limited range. And that you're "fat" or "weird" if you don't.

In reality, there are more than (just counting band sizes 28-40 and cups A-K) 105 bra sizes that are made by many companies - and that's not counting the under-28 and over-40 band, under-A and over-K cup bras. Factor those in, and the number is in excess of 150 bra sizes that are made and worn.

This means that many U.S. stores like Victoria's Secret only stock about 10% of all bra sizes available. They also do not stock under-32 bands (besides a few A and B cups) - odd, since studies indicate that 28-32 bands are the "average" size that many women of "average" weight would ideally be wearing.

Thus, Victoria's Secret, Target, Kohls, Walmart, Macy's, Penney's, Frederick's, Soma, etc. etc. only carry bras that will truly fit a small percentage of the population. However, these stores repeatedly incorrectly fit women (generally by giving them a band that is too large and a cup that is too small) in order to make sales. They act like women are strange if they don't fit into the incredibly limited range that they stock. And really, why should they stock more sizes when they can get away with selling their 10% of sizes to around 80% of women?

Incorrect Fitting

If you were ever fitted at Victoria's Secret, I can pretty much guarantee that you were fitted incorrectly. Heck, I'm not trying to pick on Victoria's Secret in particular - I could pinpoint almost any U.S. bra store for incorrect sizing methods.  Nearly all stores will add around 4 inches to the ribcage measurement (adding inches is unnecessary for most women) to get a band size. Using these incorrect "fitting" methods, I would be deemed around a 32DD, a size that is completely, totally, laughably wrong. A woman who needs a 28D would be put in about a 34A, also completely and totally wrong. And on it goes.

I would honestly mistrust most larger bra stores in the U.S. in terms of bra fitting - yes, including Nordstrom (which, although better than most, still tends to push too-big bands and too-small cups). That's why I pretty much always just recommend that women measure themselves instead of leaving their fittings in the hands of stores that have limited ranges and incorrect, outdated sizing methods.

The reason that (statistically) about 80% of you reading this are (or were at some point) wearing the wrong bra size is at least in part because of the poor fitting methods in U.S. stores. What makes it worse for me is that too often, the poor sizing and fitting seems very blatant. That makes me just a little annoyed at them.

Misinformation about Bras

I can't tell you how many times I've come across women who think that "all D cups are the same" (not true - a 30D, 34D, and 38D are all very different sizes). How many countless times I've come across women who adamantly refuse to believe that they're a "D cup" or above - because "a D cup is HUGE!". Or who think that being a larger cup size means that they're fat, or a freak.

This is simply not true, lovely readers. "DD" doesn't equal being a large-chested bimbo, a porn star, a fat freak. (If you think I'm using strong language or being dramatic here, I'm not - I run across people who think this almost daily). I'm not going to get into correct all fitting misinformation in this one blog post, but suffice to say that cup sizes mean nothing without a band size. All a "DD" means is "about 5 inches difference between underbust and bust measurement." A 28DD woman will be built very differently than a 40DD woman, but both will have about 5 inches of difference between their underbust and bust measurement. Doesn't sound too scary now, does it?

But where does all this misinformation come from? Women have to be learning it from somewhere. In my mind, it's largely the "fault" of bra stores. In my experience, I've frequently come across fitters who have little actual knowledge of correct fit (not knowing that bands should be firm and straight, or that wires should not be touching breast tissue). I've frequently experienced fitters telling me outrageously incorrect things, such as:
-Bands below a 32 don't exist
-34 and 32 bands are for "tiny" people
-28 bands don't exist
-28 bands are for super, super tiny people
-Cups above "DDD" don't exist
-Cups above a C are huge
-The only options for D+ sizes are these ugly beige bras over here
-There is no demand for under-32 bands
-D+ women need to wear minimizers
-You need to wear a 36 band (with a 28" ribcage)
-You need to add anywhere from 3-7 inches to your underbust measurement to get a band size
-Women who wear D+ cups are usually large all over

This is not a one-time thing, everyone. This is constant. This was/is almost every time I go into a bra store. These are the fitters saying these things. Some of these are things I've heard even at stores that have a better range of sizes than most U.S. stores, like Nordstrom, Dillards, and boutiques  No wonder there is so much misinformation out there. No wonder so many women are wearing an incorrect size.

Insulting/Shaming Customers

I'm sure this is going to be a bit controversial, but I'm including it anyway because I personally have experienced this when shopping for bras, and I know many other women who have as well. Of course, there are many women who haven't - but I feel that the number of women I've come across who've experienced this is so large that it deserves mentioning.

I've experienced fitters/employees outright telling me that I'm not a 28 band/over a G cup (I'm actually a [insert a wildly-incorrect size that they actually stock]), telling me I should get a breast reduction, assuming I have implants, laughing at/disbelieving when I tell them what size I'm looking for, telling me my breasts are too large, and more. Again, these are supposed to be professional, helpful people. Imagine the effect these words would have on an uncertain busty teenager who's desperately trying to find a bra that fits well. Bra fitters (or anyone) should never, ever be insulting to their customers. I would hope that would be obvious.


In my opinion, it's bra stores who play a big part in spreading this (mis)information. And it's very, very damaging to women. The misinformation spread is my major problem with U.S. stores - the pervading poor fitting methods lead to an abysmally small selection of sizes offered and countless women who hate bras because "nothing ever fits" and "bras are uncomfortable", and who won't try a different size because "a fitter told me I was a 36C" and "wearing a larger cup/smaller band would mean I'm fat/weird".


So, why do you think there's so much misinformation about bras and sizing out there? Do you think that stores play a big part, or are there other factors at play?

Behati Prinsloo Victoria's Secret 2012 Collection

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Behati Prinsloo Victoria's Secret January 2012

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Behati Prinsloo Victoria's Secret, March 2012

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What's wrong with U.S. bra stores?

To contact us Click HERE
Sometimes, people will ask why I (and other bloggers) "hate on Victoria's Secret and/or [insert name of any well-known U.S. bra store here]." So what if those stores don't sell your size, people say. "You're just bitter because you can't buy anything from them. Just get over it!"

Honestly, I have no real problem with the fact of particular stores in the U.S. selling an incredibly limited range of bras. I know that bra departments and stores can't be expected to stock every size under the sun.

What I do have a problem with is these stores claiming that their size range will fit "every woman". That they'll push bras on to women to make a sale, even if the bras are a blatantly incorrect fit. That they use their position of supposed "expertise" to misinform women. That sometimes fitters insult women who are outside the small size range carried. That, in the U.S., there is an overwhelming amount of misinformation about bras, bra sizing, and how bras are supposed to fit - and it's spread largely by the bra stores (and the media) here - the very ones who are supposed to know better.

[I'm going to add here that I'm in no way trying to put down the stores I mention in general, but just bring attention to their incorrect fitting methods they use to keep customers within a very small range of sizes. Also, there are great boutiques out there with dedicated owners committed to meeting the needs of their customers in terms of fitting and sizes stocked. In this post, however, I'm just speaking in broad terms of what I and others have generally experienced, mostly in the larger, well-known stores - the stores that, unfortunately, tend to carry the most influence.]

Limited Sizing

Stores like the ever-present Victoria's Secret, for example, sell a grand total of 33 bra sizes (yes, I counted) - but only about 15-18 of those sizes are actually really found in the physical stores. Victoria's Secret often claims (overtly or by implication) that they have bras for "all" or "almost all" women.

Do they think that there are only 15-18, or 33, different body types that women have?

Other stores I've seen have an even more limited amount of sizes - in the 8-12 range. Again, I don't really have a problem with stores carrying a very small range of bra sizes. What I do have a problem with is their implication that all or most women should fit into this incredibly limited range. And that you're "fat" or "weird" if you don't.

In reality, there are more than (just counting band sizes 28-40 and cups A-K) 105 bra sizes that are made by many companies - and that's not counting the under-28 and over-40 band, under-A and over-K cup bras. Factor those in, and the number is in excess of 150 bra sizes that are made and worn.

This means that many U.S. stores like Victoria's Secret only stock about 10% of all bra sizes available. They also do not stock under-32 bands (besides a few A and B cups) - odd, since studies indicate that 28-32 bands are the "average" size that many women of "average" weight would ideally be wearing.

Thus, Victoria's Secret, Target, Kohls, Walmart, Macy's, Penney's, Frederick's, Soma, etc. etc. only carry bras that will truly fit a small percentage of the population. However, these stores repeatedly incorrectly fit women (generally by giving them a band that is too large and a cup that is too small) in order to make sales. They act like women are strange if they don't fit into the incredibly limited range that they stock. And really, why should they stock more sizes when they can get away with selling their 10% of sizes to around 80% of women?

Incorrect Fitting

If you were ever fitted at Victoria's Secret, I can pretty much guarantee that you were fitted incorrectly. Heck, I'm not trying to pick on Victoria's Secret in particular - I could pinpoint almost any U.S. bra store for incorrect sizing methods.  Nearly all stores will add around 4 inches to the ribcage measurement (adding inches is unnecessary for most women) to get a band size. Using these incorrect "fitting" methods, I would be deemed around a 32DD, a size that is completely, totally, laughably wrong. A woman who needs a 28D would be put in about a 34A, also completely and totally wrong. And on it goes.

I would honestly mistrust most larger bra stores in the U.S. in terms of bra fitting - yes, including Nordstrom (which, although better than most, still tends to push too-big bands and too-small cups). That's why I pretty much always just recommend that women measure themselves instead of leaving their fittings in the hands of stores that have limited ranges and incorrect, outdated sizing methods.

The reason that (statistically) about 80% of you reading this are (or were at some point) wearing the wrong bra size is at least in part because of the poor fitting methods in U.S. stores. What makes it worse for me is that too often, the poor sizing and fitting seems very blatant. That makes me just a little annoyed at them.

Misinformation about Bras

I can't tell you how many times I've come across women who think that "all D cups are the same" (not true - a 30D, 34D, and 38D are all very different sizes). How many countless times I've come across women who adamantly refuse to believe that they're a "D cup" or above - because "a D cup is HUGE!". Or who think that being a larger cup size means that they're fat, or a freak.

This is simply not true, lovely readers. "DD" doesn't equal being a large-chested bimbo, a porn star, a fat freak. (If you think I'm using strong language or being dramatic here, I'm not - I run across people who think this almost daily). I'm not going to get into correct all fitting misinformation in this one blog post, but suffice to say that cup sizes mean nothing without a band size. All a "DD" means is "about 5 inches difference between underbust and bust measurement." A 28DD woman will be built very differently than a 40DD woman, but both will have about 5 inches of difference between their underbust and bust measurement. Doesn't sound too scary now, does it?

But where does all this misinformation come from? Women have to be learning it from somewhere. In my mind, it's largely the "fault" of bra stores. In my experience, I've frequently come across fitters who have little actual knowledge of correct fit (not knowing that bands should be firm and straight, or that wires should not be touching breast tissue). I've frequently experienced fitters telling me outrageously incorrect things, such as:
-Bands below a 32 don't exist
-34 and 32 bands are for "tiny" people
-28 bands don't exist
-28 bands are for super, super tiny people
-Cups above "DDD" don't exist
-Cups above a C are huge
-The only options for D+ sizes are these ugly beige bras over here
-There is no demand for under-32 bands
-D+ women need to wear minimizers
-You need to wear a 36 band (with a 28" ribcage)
-You need to add anywhere from 3-7 inches to your underbust measurement to get a band size
-Women who wear D+ cups are usually large all over

This is not a one-time thing, everyone. This is constant. This was/is almost every time I go into a bra store. These are the fitters saying these things. Some of these are things I've heard even at stores that have a better range of sizes than most U.S. stores, like Nordstrom, Dillards, and boutiques  No wonder there is so much misinformation out there. No wonder so many women are wearing an incorrect size.

Insulting/Shaming Customers

I'm sure this is going to be a bit controversial, but I'm including it anyway because I personally have experienced this when shopping for bras, and I know many other women who have as well. Of course, there are many women who haven't - but I feel that the number of women I've come across who've experienced this is so large that it deserves mentioning.

I've experienced fitters/employees outright telling me that I'm not a 28 band/over a G cup (I'm actually a [insert a wildly-incorrect size that they actually stock]), telling me I should get a breast reduction, assuming I have implants, laughing at/disbelieving when I tell them what size I'm looking for, telling me my breasts are too large, and more. Again, these are supposed to be professional, helpful people. Imagine the effect these words would have on an uncertain busty teenager who's desperately trying to find a bra that fits well. Bra fitters (or anyone) should never, ever be insulting to their customers. I would hope that would be obvious.


In my opinion, it's bra stores who play a big part in spreading this (mis)information. And it's very, very damaging to women. The misinformation spread is my major problem with U.S. stores - the pervading poor fitting methods lead to an abysmally small selection of sizes offered and countless women who hate bras because "nothing ever fits" and "bras are uncomfortable", and who won't try a different size because "a fitter told me I was a 36C" and "wearing a larger cup/smaller band would mean I'm fat/weird".


So, why do you think there's so much misinformation about bras and sizing out there? Do you think that stores play a big part, or are there other factors at play?

Urkye Review: Tuba and Wodnik tops

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I've been in need of some more casual (yet still nice-looking and well-fitting) tops, and thus decided to place another Urkye order at the beginning of the month. The shirts recently arrived, so it's time for a few more reviews!

First off is the Tuba in grey.
Cost: 59zl ($18.66)
Material: Cotton/elastine
Size: 36oo/ooo

Tuba 36oo/ooo

(Yes, it's been warm enough to wear shorts here!)

This is such a great invention - a sleeveless shirt that completely conceals my bra! The little bands on the shoulder-straps can be adjusted to sit higher or lower for slightly different looks (I just noticed that I have one of them turned the wrong way in the picture... derp). 

Side view

The material is stretchy, and I will say that the shirt is fairly clingy; it doesn't bother me too much, but it may be worth trying a size up (a 38o/oo rather than a 36oo/ooo, for example) if you prefer less cling. I felt that the top had plenty of boob room - I might have even been able to get away with a o/oo - so if you're worried about being a bit out of the size range in terms of bust measurement, you may find this shirt will still work. I also found the shirt to be long, so it would probably also work well for those of us who are taller and/or have longer torsos. All in all, it's a great option for warmer weather, and I feel it could be dressed up or down depending on the occasion.

More reviews of the Tuba shirt:
Leah from Hourglassy (38o/oo and 36oo/ooo)
Chloe from Muscular Hourglass (36oo/ooo)
June from Braless in Brasil (38oo/ooo)
Busty and Thrifty (40o/oo)


The second top I ordered was the Wodnik in black.
Cost: 79zl ($24.99)
Material: Cotton/elastine
Size: 36oo/ooo

Wodnik 36oo/ooo

I generally have a ban on buying any more black clothing (I have too much as it used to be my default!), but this shirt was so interesting that I thought it would be justified. It's certainly not just another plain black shirt!

Business in the front, party in the back!

This shirt is understated yet interesting, comfy and well-fitting - what more can I say? The material is on the thinner side (certainly thinner than the Francuski Blekit), making it ideal for warmer weather without being so skimpy that you would freeze once the weather got a bit cooler. It's mostly cotton, which I find more comfortable than many other materials. There's always the fear that anything cotton will shrink, but I always wash my Urkye purchases in cold/delicate cycles and air dry, so hopefully this won't be a problem. I also think the shirt could go through a bit of shrinkage and still fit me well.

Side view

As you can see, this shirt is also plenty long enough! Having the top and bottom "pieces" sort of separated by a seam makes the shirt a bit more interesting, as well, although I will say it tends to sort of pucker a bit at the seam in the front at this point. Not sure if it's an issue with my shirt in particular, or if they're just all supposed to be like that.

More reviews of the Wodnik shirt:
Laura of Undressed to Impress (34o/oo)
Les Gros Bonnets (42oo/ooo)

Stay tuned for the reviews of the other two items I ordered!

Also, check out Holly from The Full Figured Chest's recent Urkye success, as well as the recent list of Urkye items reviewed by Laura from Undressed to Impress.

Urkye Review: Kokarda and Francuski Turkus tops

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The final two items of my recent four-item Urkye order included the Kokarda Czerwona and the Francuski Turkus (check out the review of the first part of the order if you haven't already!).

The third item of the order was the Kokarda in red.Cost: 75zl ($23.67)
Material: Cotton/elastaine
Size: 36oo/ooo

Kokarda 36oo/ooo

I was a little uncertain about the bust portion at first, but I actually think it works quite well! The "bow gathering" (you can tell I'm not a seamstress) adds interest without adding bulk or too much attention, and I think it gives a really cute look.

Back view

The Kokarda does seem to be shorter in length than the other shirts in this order - not too short, but anyone who is quite tall or has a long torso may want to take this into account. I suppose I would categorize the other shirts as "on the long side for me" and this one as "normal". The sleeves also poke out rather roguishly on this shirt (Husband's reaction: "You have little wings!") - I think it's cute, just a bit different.

I was worried about the neckline being too wide - I have fairly wide shoulders, but they also slope, so I was afraid that the sleeves just wouldn't stay up or would constantly expose my bra straps (I thought the problem might be exacerbated in the long-sleeved version of this shirt, the Dzwonek, which is why I decided to start with the short sleeved version). Fortunately, I was pleasantly surprised. This shirt may be very slightly more prone to let a bra strap peek through if not adjusted correctly, but definitely not enough to be an issue for me.

Side view

The material is stretchy and not too clingy, and I think this color is cheery and just perfect for the Holiday season (although probably a bit chilly with the short sleeves!).

More reviews of the Kokarda shirt:
Les Gros Bonnets (44oo/ooo)

Reviews of the Dzwonek (long-sleeved version):
Laura of Undressed to Impress (34oo/ooo)
Holly of The Full Figured Chest (42o/oo)


The fourth and final item of my order was the Francuski shirt in turquoise.
Cost: 69zl ($21.78)
Material: Viscose/polyester
Size: 36oo/ooo


I have this same shirt (same size) in navy blue and have reviewed it previously (see post on the Francuski Blekit), so I don't have much new to say here. The Francuski Blekit became one of my favorite shirts, so I just had to order this other color!

The one big thing I'll note is that the sizing for the Turkus color vs. the Blekit color is fairly different. The Francuski Blekit was quite form-fitting on me, almost to the point of being a bit small (and I think it's shrunk a tad with washing and wear). Based on this, I thought of trying out a size 38 in the Turkus. However, Ula (the very helpful owner of Urkye) advised me to just get my usual size, as the Turkus ran looser than the Blekit - and she was right!

Overall, the Turkus color seems to have a tad thinner material, and definitely has a little more stretch/give, and it's much roomier than the Blekit color. I would almost say it's a bit too roomy in the top/shoulder portion in comparison with the other shirts, but if it shrinks a tiny bit as the Blekit did, it should be perfect. It's very comfy, and I see myself wearing it a lot. If you found the Francuski Blekit to be too small for you, or you want to try the Francuski shirt but are concerned about being a bit outside of the given size chart, I would definitely give the Francuski Turkus a go.

More reviews of the Francuski shirt:
Laura of Undressed to Impress (34o/oo)
Leah of Hourglassy (38o/oo)

Urkye also has a long-sleeved version of this shirt.


So, bottom line after my most recent order? Overall, everything I chose was a success, and I feel I've firmly settled on what my usual size is. If you haven't yet ventured into the world of online shopping, Urkye may be a great place to start - their well-fitting clothes, great customer service, and very reasonable prices (especially if you're watching sales!) make them well worth a try!